United 1-4 Liverpool

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United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by j6pini on Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:48 am

Before getting into this, I need to put it out there: I actually missed this game, having spent Friday night in a few Boston pubs (which I strongly recommend, only not right before major games at 8:45 am eastern standard time). I did, however, read a handful of match write-ups, including Brian's.

I guess I just want to say yes, it was a huge win for Liverpool, but I gotta agree with Brian that it's a bit too late. If they had beaten Middlesbrougha couple weeks ago then yes they'd be in the title race.

Also, I think this game will be a factor in the English Footballer of the Year vote. Of course you can't determine the winner based on a single game, but seeing as Gerrard and Vidic were pretty close front runners before today, maybe the voters will look at the contrast in how the two players played today. I do believe this is just a blip on what has been an outstanding season for Vidic, but it's got to be a factor. Plus he's been sent off in both games vs. Liverpool, while Gerrard has been a force in both wins.

Again, I did not actually watch the game, so take this with a grain of salt but tell me what you think.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Blackburnbob on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Well i'm neutral, although title is in United's favour, it's not over till the fat lady sings! Fatigue amongst other things could be a hinderance for United with them having to pay so many games, you never know, only thing is, so many United fans saying today's match wasn't important but my FB homepage is full of United fans complaining and going on about the title?! Anyways i don't care that much, i'm more bothered about bottom of the table, even though we are losing atm to Arsenal but the other matches are going in our favour, i don't expect to win at the Emirates but a draw would be nice
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:46 pm

j6pini wrote:Plus he's been sent off in both games vs. Liverpool, while Gerrard has been a force in both wins.

Gerrard didn't even play 30 minutes against United in September.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by j6pini on Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:51 pm

On the game as a whole, I've seen highlights now and my impression is that this was not a domination at all, but Liverpool just took their chances more than United did. As in, United beat themselves. Is that a fair assessment, those of you who watched it? And the first 3 Pool goals you could argue were results of United mistakes and sound finishing to capitalize on them. That, plus 2 goals coming after Vidic was sent off...it sounds like Liverpool just got all the breaks. That's not to take anything away from a good finish by Torres and a great goal by Aurelio, but you know...they wouldn't have been in those positions if it weren't for individual blunders.

Any comment? People must have some sort of opinion on this game...

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by j6pini on Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:53 pm

Ooo wow my mistake about Gerrard. Well then ignore the first game.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:54 pm

Blackburnbob, I think you misunderstand what United fans are saying (especially on Facebook).

No United fans are complaining. Zero. The message from United fans today is "WHY DID THIS HAPPEN" and "ALL of the players are to blame except for Rooney and Carrick." What we're saying is just that Liverpool fans will now be saying they are superior to United, but the table says otherwise, and that it will say otherwise for quite some time.

Four points up with a game in hand means two losses for United in our coming games and we're STILL ahead of Pool. That's not complaining and it's not saying the match wasn't important; merely saying that things could be worse.

The bottom line is this: United were awful today while Gerrard and Torres proved their class. Stevie G knows United fans have been on his back for 10 years now, and finally he put one over us at Old Trafford (he specifically touched upon this in his interview). He knows he won on the day, and United fans know it even better.

Vidic made unexplainable mistakes, Evra had a poor game, and O'Shea gave the ball away with every touch. United didn't take their chances. Liverpool did, and won. That's the story of the match, and no one debates it or complains about it. Just venting frustrations.

With only nine games to go for Liverpool, United have worked all season to put this distance between them. It's a bit too late for Liverpool, and time will show that (yes, you can say it's not locked up, but people said that to me last year as well. The Prem race is as good as locked up BARRING no extraordinary collapse, which I can't see happening...let's go with stats because we can't predict the future).

Massive result for Liverpool. It puts them in the driving seat for second place. But what will we be saying if they lose to Villa next weekend?

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Blackburnbob on Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:44 pm

Brian wrote:

Massive result for Liverpool. It puts them in the driving seat for second place. But what will we be saying if they lose to Villa next weekend?

This is what i mean though, United fans are saying we have still won the title etc, Why can't you United fans just say "well played Liverpool, you beat us by quite some margin today" end of?? There is always a "but we win this we could win that we are top the league" on the end of it. The title is NOT United's until the season is over, Liverpool have brought themselve's back in with a chance today, not a mssive chance but never the less a chance, it is not won by a long shot!
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:01 pm

Saying "but United is still the favorite" doesn't take anything away from this match. I said Liverpool were better. Far better, in fact. United's defenders looked like preschoolers out there. But by saying we'll still win the title is an opinion I have - how does that bother you?

Is it any different than how I've been saying all season that yeah Blackburn lost, but there's no way they'll go down. It's an opinion. Are we not allowed to speculate on the future at all, Lee? Can't have a good bet? Razz

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Blackburnbob on Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:18 pm

No i don't say that at all, but when United lose the fans always go straight for "we will win the title" or something instead of just commenting on the match, i've got one sat here with me now, he just cannot say Well played Liverpool and finish, he has to add Champ League FA Cup or title on the end of it, it's like a disease lol
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Andy on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:28 pm

Yeh i too have experienced this disease amongst Man U fans. Losses are usually prompted by bleats of "speak to me in may".
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:43 pm

Isn't that what it's all about? Even City beat us twice last season... Laughing

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Tay Fish on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:01 pm

I've been having this problem with other sports as well. Why does it really matter if one team beats another team in april, if they don't go on to win the title? it's all about the titles!!! i don't understand why so many people are saying that regular season wins over a rival team are oh so important if in the end they don't win the title?!?!?! why is winning titles not important to some people?? please help me out someone! i thought it was all about winning championships and trophies and titles and cups!

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:50 pm

Yeah...City beat United twice last season...would you rather have had United's season or City's?

So Liverpool beat us today. If we go on to win the Prem, would you have rather been United or Liverpool? Or, even present-day...United lost but are still top. Which position would you rather be in? Top of the table in March or just celebrating one victory, knowing that you're still 4 points back having played a game more. A bit silly, I think.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Andy on Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:48 pm

Obviously not quite understanding the rivalry between the two clubs are you? Not surprising considering you are American.
The point is Man U fans do not know how to hold their hands up, concede defeat, and that's all. They have to stick that little extra on the end so they have the last word. It's not the victory that matters its the manner of the victory, it will surely have an affect on Man U, we saw last season that they didn't finish the season in their usual imperious fashion, just what will this do to their confidence now seeing Chelsea AND Liverpool breathing down their necks, and knowing they aren't playing that well right now?
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:07 pm

Haha, one loss doesn't all of a sudden mean we aren't playing well. Look, we hadn't lost since NOVEMBER. A loss would come eventually.

And how will this loss affect us? What happened last time we lost to a big four rival? It was Arsenal in NOVEMBER and we went on a huge winning streak after that.

And I can't see how I haven't conceded defeat. There's just echoes of "you've won the battle but not the war..." I'd much rather win the war.

And please don't be pulling the American card. I understand the rivalry the same amount as if I was living in Manchester. But I suppose I understand the United mentality a bit better, which is that we'd rather celebrate trophies rather than individual wins. Call me crazy.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by faraaz on Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:53 pm

Andy wrote:Obviously not quite understanding the rivalry between the two clubs are you? Not surprising considering you are American.
The point is Man U fans do not know how to hold their hands up, concede defeat, and that's all. They have to stick that little extra on the end so they have the last word. It's not the victory that matters its the manner of the victory, it will surely have an affect on Man U, we saw last season that they didn't finish the season in their usual imperious fashion, just what will this do to their confidence now seeing Chelsea AND Liverpool breathing down their necks, and knowing they aren't playing that well right now?

Nicely said mate. I am not sure how else to put it other than your words.

its not over till its over, Manchester does have the advantage, but, the title hopes have been dented severely by Liverpool, and Man U fans must realize that and stop pretending they won the title in January.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Blackburnbob on Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:58 am

Andy wrote:
The point is Man U fans do not know how to hold their hands up, concede defeat, and that's all. They have to stick that little extra on the end so they have the last word.

That's what i was trying to say lol
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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by j6pini on Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:56 pm

Well I am an American, and only started following the sport in summer 2006, though I am neck deep in it now and watch 2 or 3 games a weekend. And i realize this rivalry is probably more intense than rivalries here in the US; my friend was in Manchester for this game, and in Liverpool for the midweek CL game, and was astounded by the amount of policemen with dogs at the stadiums. But I root for Liverpool without the anti-Everton and anti-Man United bias that true Liverpool home fans have, and I was first attracted to Liverpool when I saw an interview on Sky at the beginning of the season with Gerrard. He was asked if Liverpool could possibly win the league without beating the other top 4 teams, and he said he doesn't believe you need to do that because it's 3 points no matter who you beat. And (now me speaking again, not G) the bottom line is despite the fact that Liverpool beat United twice this season, despite the fact that theyve beaten Chelsea and drawn Arsenal, behind all of the hooplah about rivalries, the points your team has is ultimately what will determine whether you win the league, whether you make champions league, whether you get regulated. This was just a 3 points that was glorified more than the 3 points both teams earned the previous week, but just as valuable.

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Re: United 1-4 Liverpool

Post by Brian on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:22 pm

Steven Gerrard wrote:He was asked if Liverpool could possibly win the league without beating the other top 4 teams, and he said he doesn't believe you need to do that because it's 3 points no matter who you beat.

Even Stevie G understands it.

j6pini wrote:And (now me speaking again, not G) the bottom line is despite the fact that Liverpool beat United twice this season, despite the fact that theyve beaten Chelsea and drawn Arsenal, behind all of the hooplah about rivalries, the points your team has is ultimately what will determine whether you win the league, whether you make champions league, whether you get regulated.

My sentiments EXACTLY. Well, minus the "regulated" part. Laughing

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