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Post by Tay Fish on Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:54 pm

I have had enough of steroids in sports! Here in America, athletes get off the hook way to easily! A-Rod, Pettite, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and everybody else shouldn't be in baseball. I am a die-hard Red Sox fan, but if i found out that ANY of the Sox took steroids i would want them out of baseball. I don't care if it's my favorite players: lowell, pedroia, youkilis, etc.

Apparently 104 players tested positive in 2003. Why didn't we hear of 104 players getting suspended? O, that's right...they weren't. As Red Sox commentator Jerry Remy put it, "Steroids make a mockery of this game!" I completely agree and think that the penalties should be even stiffer than they supposedly are now (1st offense - 50 games, 2nd - 100 games, 3rd - lifetime ban). It should be first offense 100 games. 2nd offense banned for good. We need all sports to be cleaned up, and everybody, no matter how popular the player, should be held accountable for their actions!!

Anybody else have their own thoughts??

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Post by j6pini on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:02 pm

Firstly, I am fine with the 104 players who tested positive in 2003 not getting punished, because it was a compromise made between the league and the Players' Union to test whether there should be routine testing in the first place.

But more interestingly, about your second thought: I don't think a stricter punishment system will have much effect because even how it is now (50 game suspension for 1st offense) is pretty damn hefty.

The real deterrant is the drastic change in the culture and media over the past couple years, ESPECIALLY now that the ex-savior-of-the-steroid-era Alex Rodriguez has been caught. And the same thing is happening in governments across the globe now: the constant political battle between free markets and government regulation. We've known ever since the Depression of the 1930's that an absolutely free market will destroy itself. But the level of regulation in both the financial market and the steroid market has been so lax that the markets have nearly destroyed their respective spheres (the world economy and baseball, respectively). And now there is a great push by all parties in both spheres in favor of more regulation. That movement will eliminate the "loosey goosey era" (to use Rodriguez's term) and the sport will completely transform the game, just like the new regulation in the financial markets will change the way we look at capitalism.

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Post by Tay Fish on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:14 pm

50 games is not hefty enough in my eyes. if a player tests positive on a first offense they should miss 100 games and not be eligible for the playoffs if their team makes it that season. they need to lay down the law and punish the 104 cheaters who thought they could beat the system.

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Post by Brian on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:16 pm

j6pini, how can you say the 104 players not getting suspended is okay since they didn't know they'd be drug tested? Taking steroids is AGAINST THE LAW of the UNITED STATES, nevermind what the MLB wants to do. How can you say Major League Baseball is above the law?

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Post by Tay Fish on Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:25 pm

just because you make billions of dollars are year doesn't mean you can govern yourself by your own set of laws. the mlb needs to be cleaned up and stiffer penalties are one way to push that in the right direction.

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Post by Dani on Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:55 pm

I agree with you on that the penalty should a bit more harsh. There needs to be an overhaul of the system with strict penalties. At the same time however, there must be an appropriate appeals process as well in regards to certain substances. Should a player who gets caught with an illegal weight loss suplement get the same penalty as someone who gets caught with HGH? Probably not.

I think it would be ok for players sustaining career threatning injuries to their neck or vertebra to use steroids to get better. Certain steroids can help someone heal better. In an ideal world independent doctors would come in and verify if the player really does need the steroid in order to heal properly and would administer the steroids under his supervision. However, I relaize that a plan like that would not work in sports because there's too much money. It would probably be way to easy to buy a doctor off and get steroids for a minor injury that doesn't even come close. So while I think it's a good idea, I wouldn't support it.

As far as these 104 guys being suspended goes it makes for an interesting legal case. It was agreed by MLB and the union that they couldn't be suspended. To suspend these players would be in violation of the collective bargaining agreement. I'm sure the government will get involved and we'll have to wait and see what happens there. My guess is that these players will face a suspension and even possibly criminal charges.

Did anyone see Roy Oswalt talk today? The guy's pissed!!! His arguement was that every time a juiced player got a hit off of him or caused him to give up a run, or lose a game that he lost out on potential millions because they made him look bad while he played clean. I think he has a point. Maybe the clean players will sue the dirty players along with MLB for millions of lost wages due to the cheating. Before you say that's a bit far fetched, remember, we live in America where you can sue someone for millions over anything, like a cup of hot coffee.

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Post by Blackburnbob on Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:00 am

I think the only sport i have seen UK people busted for with steroids is athletics, i'm sure there is lots more but none that i know of
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Post by j6pini on Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:55 pm

The reason I think it's okay that the players don't get suspended is because that was one of the key terms of the agreement (the other being that the results be kept completely secret). The steroid testing system would not even exist if they weren't able to agree on that anonymous test, the results of which confirmed that yes we needed an enforceable testing system. Plus, the PEDs that they were testing for were at the time not MLB-illegal, so even if the names get out, it would be strictly a legal matter and down to the individual clubs to disipline players at their discretion.

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Post by Brian on Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:57 pm

Down to the clubs? How about down to the law of the United States of America?

The MLB's rules are not higher than the laws of our country, so not only should these players have been suspended, but they should have been prosecuted.

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Post by Blackburnbob on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:33 pm

I agree, anyone doing the deed in sports should be banned for life and prosecuted!
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Post by Tay Fish on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:47 pm

I don't understand how anybody could see it any other way. Some people are just so dumb. Cheating isn't right in any capacity in any situation. I'm talking school, work, relationships, sports, etc.

As I mentioned earlier about Jerry Remy, when I met him a week or two ago, somebody asked him if why steroids couldn't be legalized and monitored in all sports? I couldn't believe what was coming out of this guys mouth. Remy was so mad at the guy for even suggesting that.

You can't legalize drugs in sports because they are illegal in the U.S. unless for medical reasons with a doctors permission. Once again, the MLB is not above the United States of America!!

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Post by Blackburnbob on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:51 pm

Any posrt should be the same, if someone needs to take prescribed drugs for whatever reason, let the docs take a blood sample before hand and one while taking the drugs, if the blood is identical barring the prescribed drugs then fair enough. Too many people claim they are prescribed drugs etc, i'm sure when it comes down to it enough money can buy a doctors signature!
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Post by Tay Fish on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:52 pm

ya i know...that is a solid plan! why can all of us normal people think of these ideas, but the people who run these professional sports leagues seem like they don't know anything?

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Post by j6pini on Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:58 pm

I did say that it is down to the United States of America ("it would be strictly a legal matter"). The MLB's laws are NOT higher than the US's, they are just different, and each set of rules (those being US law and MLB law) should deal with the players accordingly. According to MLB law, they cannot punish the players, which is why Selig is not punishing Rodriguez now. I don't know the details of US law when it comes to agreements between the Players Union and MLB, but my guess is that when the Union agreed to be anonymously tested in 2003, it not only gave them immunity from Major League Baseball, but also from US law, because due to basic contract law MLB is not allowed to divulge any names from that list. This was a necessary compromise in order to establish steroid testing in the sport because up until that point the MLB had nothing to go on except speculation, and they needed to have empirical evidence that steroids were prevalent. This test proved that, and that is how MLB was able to begin testing and punishing players thereafter. You can't turn around and tell the players "You know how we promised to keep your names private and to destroy the evidence in 2003? Well we 'forgot' to destroy the evidence, and due to public pressure we're going back on our other part of the deal too."

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